"Visions of Light" gospel presentation
All:
Please read and respond (via "Comments") to at least 3 of the following observations/queries arising from this presentation. Both team members and other class members should comment, and should particularly focus on ways in which insights from this presentation reflect, nuance, or contradict insights from your own fieldwork. Make sure your comments address this latter point.
Website at http://www.taskstream.com/main/?/peacock7/GospelProject/VisionsOfLight.html
Please read and respond (via "Comments") to at least 3 of the following observations/queries arising from this presentation. Both team members and other class members should comment, and should particularly focus on ways in which insights from this presentation reflect, nuance, or contradict insights from your own fieldwork. Make sure your comments address this latter point.
Website at http://www.taskstream.com/main/?/peacock7/GospelProject/VisionsOfLight.html
- Comments/more information about the subjective as well as objective experiences of participation vs observation
- Interesting comment about presence or absence of racial discourse: you mentioned it only in passing, but surely the issue of informants' versus observers ethnicity was a factor? Comments, either about its presence, or strategies for negotiating this?
- Very effective use of camera angles (note unobtrusive placement of camera, but how effectively it captured key interactions)
- Very nice contrast of video-documented situations--the diversity of rehearsal vs repertoire session vs performance gives us a much wider sense of the community
- Team members experienced a range of behavioral interactions (observation versus participation, etc): further to (1) above, can you discuss useful/not-so-useful aspects of each type of interaction?
- We spoke about this in class but I would be glad to have more comments, both from VoL team members and also from members of other teams whose informants might have expressed similar ideas: what is the role of a community's "self-mythology" (about its creation, its history, its makeup, its values)? Can observing, documenting, and analyzing a community's "myths" help us understand the music they make? Conversely, can ethnographic investigation of the music they make help us understand the community's "myths" and sense of collective identity? This question would be a priority for class comments!
- Kinesthetics: there were interesting comments about "body knowledge" and "body learning" in the presentation. Can team members (and members of other teams) unpack the significance of this kind of learning? What are its unique benefits, if any?
- Nice observation about the (stylistically-different but nevertheless very real) virtuosity required of teachers in this idiom; does this resonate with other teams' investigations?
- Good comments from team and class about analysis of song texts (and their selection by members of the community) as tools for understanding community's "constructed identity". Class members: what are the "identity texts" employed by your target subcommunity?
- More about pedagogical approaches: what is the impact of oral/aural learning? How does this particular set of pedagogical tools integrate with the community member's diverse musical backgrounds?
- Comment upon the sense of (historical, autobiographical, sociological) contextualization which informants tend to provide when asked about their experiences. How is music a "tool" for informants to make sense of their lives and experience?
- Good comments on the limited response you received to surveys. It is good, as you did, to report upon total number distributed versus total number received; this “sample-size” is crucial in determined the applicability of the survey results.
- Great use of “conclusions” format; other teams take note.
posted by CJS at 10:50 AM
23 Comments:
(9.) In my field work I was fortunate to attend the Buddy Birthday celebration where john Mueller had a sing a ling of Buddy holly songs. The entire audience sang along, from young to old, with such standards as Peggy Sue, Rave On, and Everyday.
12.) Surveys are okay and are sometime useful, but I have not ever had much luck with them. I tend to shy away form them and focus energy on other tools.
13.) I also think conclusions or important and that is why each of our team members summarized their participation.
2. In my experience, many outreach-based Christian communities are usually very goal-oriented and will suspend many preconceptions/personal feelings/etc. when the opportunity arises to "bring others into the fold" or "witness."
3. I wonder if part of the reason the participants seemed less aware of the camera was due to the leader's somewhat-animated teaching style. He seemed to garner so much attention that the participants may have been less concerned with the camera.
4. As with our group, virtuosity is a crucial aspect. The skill of the instructors has a lot to do with the desirability of membership.
First off I would like to say that the most interesting part of this presentation (to me) was the video showing how the members of Vision of Light learned music. I found it unbelievable that a church nowadays would use rote seeing as many of the places I’ve sung at/for have been very, VERY picky about having to use scribed music. In all the experience I’ve had in churches they are very set in their ways and just imagining my church choir director to simply teach by rote (all four parts none the less) blows my mind. That takes such an extreme amount of dedication, experience and dependability on the director of that organization.
I’m glad that this team had it in them to go ahead and film at the rehearsals. Our group decided early on that we would refrain from filming anything, because we figured it was a very personal situation to bring a camera into, but I really thought this element of the wage page added extreme personality, color and life.
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2. While I know you probably could not publish this online, I was wondering about the racial differences as Dr. Smith talks about in 2. Did you get any hint of hesitation by any of the members? Or was everyone very open? I'm especially wondering about the performance and the audience's reaction. Kudos to you, Brian. I don't know if I could have done that. In my groups field work, I was wondering if there would be any hesitation because of ethnic differences (A primarily Hispanic culture to me… very very white), but everyone was very open to me. I think this might have to do with intent of the ‘ritual’ or practice…. Ballet Folklorico to teach and Visions of Light to ‘spread the Word’.
3/4. I think the extensive amount of field work gave the group a better understand of what was going on in this 'community'. I think that this had a positive effect on the final result.
12. I think the survey was a good way to get information. That said, do you think that you would have gotten more responses if the survey was shorter or less in detail? I know you would have gotten less information perhaps, but do you think that the initial hesitation to do the survey was because of asking for ‘short essays’ in a way? I wonder if my group could have found a way to use surveys to find out our dancer’s reasons for participating in Ballet Folklorico….
I enjoyed the extensive videos! Looks like y’all had fun!
6. Is of particular interest to me, because as we stated in our presentation, the members of Lubbock Chinese Church borrow a great deal of tradition and music from the Baptist tradition. I wonder in what way this appropriation adds to their collective mythology.
5. I was also curious to any transformative behavior among participants before during and after rehearsals and concerts because of the spiritual connection of the text.
10. There is some power in the observation of rote pedagogy in contemporary music making situations. Such ethnographic research lead validity and credibility to another aspect of music education that seems absent in most public school programs. The training of the "ear" and "aural memory."
3. Yes, I was very impressed with the way you used the video camera. You had it down on the floor out of the way to where the people did not really seem to notice it, yet it was still able to capture the majority of everything that was going on. We too had a good camera angle at one of our times at melt where a couple was so unaware of our presence with the camera they literally stood right in front of it blocking any view of the other people dancing. It captured everyone on the dance floor with out much regard to the camera but everyone at some point had seen us filming and where okay with it because they where all aware of what we where doing there.
6.When speaking to informants a lot of them expressed particular interest in making their salsa night very similar to what a salsa event would be like in a place such a Puerto Rico where salsa has strong origins. This reveals a culture that wants to keep performance practice very traditional and what some people we talked to call “authentic”. This isn’t to say that this sub-community is not open to new salsa music, but they are careful to use it’s significance within the sub-community in a similar way which is to get people dancing and bonding with each other to strengthen this almost family like atmosphere.
7. Body learning is something that plays a very significant role in salsa. When dancing, there is the constant dance move known as the “basic”. This dance is what all the salsa dancing is based off of and this has to become a simple muscle memory that is not thought about in order to dance at a more advanced style. This is a marker that can reveal a persons mastery of dancing the salsa.
Danielle’s Visions of Light Comments
10. Since there is such a wide diversity of musical backgrounds, aural learning really puts everyone on equal footing. Using sheet music or having members learn on their own via piano or other instrument would really limit the people able to participate, or the extent to which they are able to actively participate. This purposeful means of inclusion is very much in keeping with their mission of inclusion in general.
9. In the salsa community, the “identity texts” are texts in Spanish. The salsa community labels itself as Latino, and is trying to maintain a sense of identity through consciously employing language as a marker of that identity. The texts also focus heavily on socializing and life in general; how no matter what is going on, dancing and music will help one to go on and carry on with life. That is a recurring theme in much of the salsa music.
11. Music, while often involving extensive communal elements and experiences, is also a very personal and unique experience for each participant. Music acts as a tool in a sense that it gives an outlet for personal expression and allows for that expression to be shared with others. Music can help build/maintain a like minded community, and it can also help people deal with bigger issues.
1. One of the great advantages of having members participate while videotaping is that it allows for retaining both an insider and outside perspective. Those who participated could describe their experiences as an insider and then later view the video in order to regain an outsider's perspective.
8/10. In regards to learning by rote, I agree with Nicky that it sort of leveled the playing field and allowed the choir to fulfill its mission of including anyone who is interested in gospel music. One of the nessecary consequences of this technique is the huge demands it places on the music leader. There are interesting historical elements to this emphasis on the leader. A fruitful aspect of further study could connect historical teaching methods with these modern techniques.
5. From my experience with observation vs. participation, when I was just observing my group, there were some insights that I gained that I might not have been able to from strictly participation, but my main issue with observation was I did get a sense of separation from the people.
10/8. I believe aural learning is a great way to really internalize music. Even though I do agree with the past few responses about how this style of learning “levels the playing field” in order to include everyone, I also believe that it takes time and experience to become good at it. I believe the reason that this still levels the playing field is because many people, especially in this idiom, are raised learning music in this fashion.
I’ve also liked the connection made in the last few responses between aural learning/teaching and the idea of the virtuosic teachers. In my particular fieldwork, the instructor at Cavazos was not originally trained as a Mariachi player, but rather an orchestral player. I found it interesting that Mariachi however was originally taught by ear, yet in this context, the instructor taught mostly with written music and was much better at teaching this way.
2. I sometimes wonder how much cultural background affects racial discourse. I do not believe that there is always as big of an influence placed on racial differences as people make out. In my circle of associations I think it may be a thing noted, but doesn’t necessarily affect my interactions as much as it does for people in other situations. Television gives the impression that it is such a large obstacle, but in my findings it is not. The bigger obstacle is that of trust, and once that is overcome racial discourse is no longer an issue.
4. I tried to view the videos on my computer and something went wrong apparently. I kept playing the same video over and over, though I clicked on the different links. Perhaps it is my computer issue?
5. Observational interaction is not as beneficial if you do not fully understand the field you are working in. Through participation you can better understand the field and thus make better conclusions of the group you are working with, unless of course you want only reactionary data.
9. I’m not sure off hand what would be an “identity text” in my subcommunity of investigation. At first I think of any published books, such as song books or the Bible, but my subcommunity does not rely on those. The only identity text that comes to mind is song lyrics of the hit songs in the 50’s and 60’s.
10. The further I go in my music education the more I feel that rote teaching needs to be implemented back into early training. What I think should be strived for is a balance between music literacy and aural training. The Horn prof. at my undergrad institution presented a method that I believe works well. He would begin a beginning music class with himself playing and have the students echo him. As the term progressed more notes would be added to the exercise. After the echoing he would present the notes that were played in the exercise in written notation, associating the sound with the written pitch.
When it came to my own fieldwork every song I heard was done from memory. In the case of RTB it is an obvious must to when performing live. For the bluegrass jam session in Meadow all of the songs played were songs learned either in the jam session or earlier in life. For the people attending the jam session that did not know a song I did notice greater visual learning (watching what other people were doing on the guitar) to start with and once a key area was established the musicians didn’t look as much and concentrated on listening.
8. The virtuosity required at SPC in particular is two fold. An understanding of the Nashville Numbering System and the ability to play by ear. Something I noticed when I attended the Meadow Musical was that the youngest musician in the room was struggling with playing the bass. Another member who it seemed had very little experience on bass but had considerable experience on other string instruments (guitar, mandolin) was able to play the bass and help “educate” the younger musician.
7. Body learning did not appear to be a big aspect in my fieldwork. What little I did see I related above, but that was the extent of it. I’d be interested to hear from my other group members on whether or not they observed any at SPC, I could possibly see something about picking method.
2. I was thinking about how I would react if my group were observing a sub-community of a different race or ethnicity and it made me a little uncomfortable. Surely, this was a factor in the Visions of Light group for Brain to be performing as the only white person, but I also think that the fact that this was a religious group made his skin color less of an issue. Yes, I’m going to go there and say that I believe that the fact that Visions of Light is a religious group lessened the fact that the researchers were not of the same race. I think they might be more forgiving of superficial difference. Of course I’m going to also say that I could be completely wrong here and it doesn’t matter if the group is religious in nature or not. Just a thought though.
5. I think as a participant you observe things and as an observer, you observe completely different things. As a participant, you are completely involved and may not notice that the choir director is giving you some bad looks every time you miss an entrance. As an observer, you may not know the talk that happens at the water cooler. I also think that being a participant and THEN being an observer gives you an even different insight of what you’re actually seeing.
10. I really liked that the team discussed the rote learning process they observed. I think each musical ensemble has its own way of learning and essentially, everyone can learn by rote teaching. We use the reading of music to learn because we have been trained to do so. But, if I were handed a Japanese poem and asked to read it I wouldn’t know where to begin. I can’t read or speak Japanese, but I can repeat a phrase after someone says it first. I think that this is the best way to teach a group of people if you don’t know their musical background.
7/10. When our group did fieldwork at the Rec. center, taking the salsa beginners class, one of the the things that caught my attention immediately was that when we learned the dancing we immediately started putting it with music. There was no explanation of what the beat was or where it was in the music, but somehow, everyone managed to pick that up. (For music majors, sure that's easy, but for such a diverse crowd it was a little surprising to see.) Our teachers went very quickly in our class. First they showed us what we were going to do, then they broke it down into steps, and then we got into couples to try it, step by step. After that, they circulated around the room to give couples individual attention (which sounds contradictory, but it's not!). This "sink or swim" strategy for teaching, and learning, actually worked quite well. After four or five classes we all knew the basic step in our sleep and we learned some pretty complicated choreography.
1. Well, I think that they did very well their project. But I the first time did not understand why they choose "black church music" as subject. I mean that why they make them to seperate from American churches. I was not happy with their issue but at least I found that they have little different stye of worship than normal western style...their presentation were pretty dtailed.
2. As I mention above, from their project, I realize that black people have different style, and manner of worship or music. From my understanding, they felt little racial discourage from church. But I don't like word of racial. I think that white people visit black church only was little strange thing for them because that was not usual thing. However, they said also that black church people became very kind. Thurs any kinds of church has no borderline.
13. Actually, Our team did not have a good conclusion. They had a good coclusion that seems being prepared. So I learned that a good conclusion could bring out overall and cruical thing of whole project.
posting for danielle...
Danielle’s Visions of Light Comments 10. Since there is such a wide diversity of musical backgrounds, aural learning really puts everyone on equal footing. Using sheet music or having members learn on their own via piano or other instrument would really limit the people able to participate, or the extent to which they are able to actively participate. This purposeful means of inclusion is very much in keeping with their mission of inclusion in general. 9. In the salsa community, the “identity texts” are texts in Spanish. The salsa community labels itself as Latino, and is trying to maintain a sense of identity through consciously employing language as a marker of that identity. The texts also focus heavily on socializing and life in general; how no matter what is going on, dancing and music will help one to go on and carry on with life. That is a recurring theme in much of the salsa music. 11. Music, while often involving extensive communal elements and experiences, is also a very personal and unique experience for each participant. Music acts as a tool in a sense that it gives an outlet for personal expression and allows for that expression to be shared with others. Music can help build/maintain a like minded community, and it can also help people deal with bigger issues.
2. I did mention ethnicity only in passing because in all actuality, I thought ethnicity was going to be more of a factor. I thought people were going to be more uncomfortable because I was this giant white boy walking into a place where at the time of VOL, it was predominantly black. The interesting thing I found was that my skin color was never really discussed as an issue. Sure I was white, but as C. had told me and the choir, "that boy know how to sang." I may be a white boy who didn't grow up singing Gospel music, but I am a singer and I know how to adapt well.
4. I am glad that we got such a diverse range of different types of documenting. I wanted to get some video of the rehearsals and of the performance so I could see what it might be like to be a temporary fly on the wall. I tried to put the camera in a rather descrete area so that people would forget about it and go about the rehearsal like any other time.
6. I think the role of "self-mythology" is very important to the overall success of VOL. C told me numerous times of how VOL started, how he got into it, why he got into it, and what makes him keep doing it. He has told choir members that sometimes he just wants to stop because he doesn't think people want to do this anymore. He doesn't think people have the heart to do this choir anymore but when he hears a good rehearsal or sees a performance come together, it makes him want to keep doing it. He started this choir because he wanted to have all his friends from different cummunities and churches get together to praise God. This will be the 13th year that VOL has been together and C. helps it stay together. He tells stories about different years and stories about performances and I think it keeps the idea of community together.
2. This made me think about how I would feel If I was in a mostly or all white group and a couple people wanted to come in and observe us. If one person of the three were black, I wouldn’t think anything of it. If all three of them were black, I think there would be more questions happening. It makes me wonder if the members of VoL were asking questions about or too the members of this group. In order not to disrupt the rehearsals/performances, and to get the best honest information from the informants, we should find the similarities in who we are as observers and informants.
10. From my notes, I see that each member is given CD’s of professional choirs. This made me think of all the ‘pop culture’ songs I know just from listening to the radio or my CD’s. I can sing along with a lot of them. From that I usually get crazy ideas like performing some of these songs via karaoke. Not to undermine Karaoke, but that is performing and knowing the song from an oral tradition. I believe when people do this, they have more of an ability to make it their own.
8. The virtuosity required of teachers can also be talked about with Zeniada and her group. She had to learn dances from several different areas of Mexico. She has learned the Aztec Dances. She also had to learn the Male’s role. After dancing for so many years and then becoming the leader of this group, she had to learn all the Male roles and not get confused.
6. I do think analyzing a community’s “self-mythology” can help us understand the music they make. Music doesn’t exist in a vacuum; the history and values that surround any music, most definitely not only those self-constructed but those self-conveyed (and the way in which they are conveyed), can demonstrate how communities perceive themselves, musical themes, and cultural priorities. I think that examining one can lead to a deeper understanding of the other.
7. Body knowledge and body learning both speak to a strong connection between physical movement and music. This could imply either a strong connection to dance, or perhaps a connection to the playing of percussion instruments (also uses body knowledge and learning). One of the unique benefits is an internalization of rhythm as well as an internalized and deeper knowledge of the music being performed.
10. Aural learning allows certain unspoken desirable musical priorities to be communicated to the ensemble without having to teach musical literacy. This is especially effective considering the diverse musical backgrounds, most of the members not having classical training. It allows the ensemble to learn music quicker and more efficiently, while teaching new repertoire and musical priorities at the same time.
2. It's a very difficult situation when it come to racial issues. The comments and observations that we all make in accordance with race, ethnicity, or religion tend to show that we still have a long way to go for understanding. It is annoying to see that this still goes on. On the opposite spectrum, if these problems did not exist we wouldn't have this wonderfully diverse music that is in the world.
3. Camera placement is very important. We found that out in our observations on the Mi Tierra rehearsal where they actually forgot it was there.
8. This was prevalent in our group. Certain musicians had more knowledge than others, and this was beneficial for the entire group.
6. I have chosen a circuitous route with regards to the order that I have responded and I am really glad because I just mentioned my epiphone about problematizing the Buddy Holly mythopoesis and then we come to this self-mythology, or perhaps Automythopoesis? (any takers?) I think that the answer is, of course, implicit in Dr. Smith’s second question regarding the value of collecting this information. On the other hand, I think that the reverse quest regarding lyrics treads on different soil. I am not dismissing that possibility, but the term “myth” seems a little more stretched. This, I believe, is a purely contextual argument that I am making: the contexts in which we happen to have been working (to my knowledge through exposure to the groups) seem not to have any substantial lyrical content that seems to be “myth-driven” I don’t think “myth” would be an apt title for religious musics because these groups certainly do not view their most deeply-help beliefs as myths! As for the secular music contingent, we dealt mostly with cover tunes cutting an extremely wide swath across many genres and eras. I am certain that one could infer certain influential factors through ethnographic analysis of the texts, but I, in my limited understanding, find it hard to believe that one could find implicit connections, with the flow of information turned around in that particular manner in these particular contexts? I do see this as substantially different from the 9th question about constructed identity, so I hope that clears up the position I shall attempt to take. Am I way off base here? I would be grateful to anyone who would like to try to tackle this
7. This does not really resonate with our group although I certainly feel that it was appropriate here and would be for an extremely great number of possible contexts. In our case, worship of anyone besides Bacchus is out, so we dealt more with a community-as-commodity model in some sectors of our field. Be that as it may, we learned that Amber’s friend of 20 years teaches drum lessons at the center, as a supposed furtherance of the legacy. This fellow is no slouch and I do not wish to defame someone publicly, but neither is he worthy of the title “virtuoso” by our estimates or by the model given by VoL.
3. I have little to add except that (recently) reading the Feld and then reflecting on your group makes me wish that I had been slightly more timely with my reading of this article so as to gain a further appreciation. Nonetheless, being a big cinematography nut, I did appreciate the depth and breadth of your video portions.
2) Racial issues are bound to come up in some of these projects. Such as ours where I was usually the only Anglo in the room. When we traveled to the slaton gig is where it was most evident. Even when the group asked me how I felt walking into that place. I never felt completely out of place at anything we went to, but I definately felt like I stood out.
8) While the mariachis I observed did not have a teacher. The man that usually took the lead at the rehearsals could and would sing other peoples parts. I don't know if this a constant phenominon across mariachis, but it was true in our case.
10. I think the use of aural learning was more a factor in my group because of the genre. People could read music in our group because this is how they aproached the piece, but once learned they went strictly to by ear to teach "style".
7. I think this idea of learning is important to keep certain characteristics alive. I have found in certain genres of music that you cant really get the "feel" of them through just reading the notes on a page, its more complex than that, and i think one of the easiest ways to teach something like this, and very often the ONLY way to teach these things are by rote.
3. One thing we noticed alot about camera angles was how the band always set up, and how the leader of the band would always be in front leading so all could see. This became more relevent as time went on.
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